The Eureka Springs City Council continues to voice a loss in confidence in the city’s hospital commission and facility’s top two administrators, with one council member referring to the administrators as “two bad apples.”
Nonetheless, the council voted 4-1 at its regular meeting held Monday, March 24, to arrange a face-to-face meeting with the commission before taking any further action.
As of 1 p.m. Wednesday, March 26, the date and time of a workshop between the two bodies had not been announced.
“We want to make it right for you, but we have to do it the right way,” council member Susane Gruning said, looking at those in attendance, many of whom have spoken in recent weeks and months regarding controversies involving the hospital. “We will still hold your CFO and CEO accountable. I’m not going to lie, I think they’re two bad apples in the organization that need to go.”
Gruning was referring to Cynthia Asbury, the hospital’s chief financial officer, and Jodi Edmondson, the hospital’s human resources director who has been serving as acting CEO since early November. The two have been at the center of months of criticism as current and former employees have accused the pair of fostering a hostile work environment, including allegations of bullying.
Asbury and Edmondson were drawn into the spotlight after the hospital commission fired former CEO Angie Shaw and Jessica Petrino, the former director of nursing, with no explanation in early November. Since then, hospital commission meetings and city council meetings have featured speaker after speaker voicing opposition to the firings and alleging the hostile work environment.
Council members voted at their March 10 meeting to give the hospital commission a two-week ultimatum to make changes regarding the facility’s administration or the council would begin removing commissioners.
Eureka Springs Mayor Butch Berry, however, vetoed that decision, and no action on administration was taken at a pair of hospital commission meetings — including a March 13 special meeting and a March 17 regular meeting that included executive sessions — other than the announcement of a hiring committee aimed at finding a permanent CEO.
NO ACTION ON VETO
The council didn’t take any action on Berry’s veto at Monday’s meeting after the mayor explained his decision.
“Specifically, I vetoed the order resulting from the motion of the city council to give the Eureka Springs Hospital Commission two weeks to make changes to their membership and to the Eureka Springs hospital administrators, or the city council would remove the hospital commissioners,” Berry said. “The reason for the veto was because the order is an inappropriate attempt to force Eureka Springs Hospital commissioners to give up their powers and duties to manage the operation, management and control of the hospital. The order would force the hospital commission to ascertain and adopt the will of the Eureka Springs City Council when faced with decisions on how best to perform their duty to manage, maintain and control the operation of the hospital.
“I’m vetoing the order because it also contains an inappropriate threat to remove the hospital commission if they fail to institute the will of the Eureka Springs City Council within two weeks. The order of the Eureka Springs City Council would risk control of the operation of the hospital by the Eureka Springs Hospital Commission and place it under the control of city council. If this motion is allowed to stand, it would lead to negative ramifications on not only the cost of the hospital but also the city. That along with the threat to remove the hospital commissioners for the sole reasons of failing to make changes desired by the city council are inconsistent with Arkansas law, which specifically speaks to the powers and duties of the hospital commission, as well as the power of the city council to remove them. For this reason, I vetoed the order. I intended to request the hospital commission provide the city council with reporting specifically to the city council concerns and for that reporting to be made as soon as possible…” Some council members said they understood Berry’s decision.
“I understand the reasons behind your veto,” council member David Avanzino said. “I’ve said it before … we do not want to micromanage departments. However, to me, this commission, they have gotten completely out of control, and I think something, we have to do something, and our only options are to do something or do nothing and lose the hospital.”
Berry responded: “The other option is also to meet with the commission and talk to them. Nobody on this [council] has … talked to the hospital commission, is my understanding. So that was my suggestion, was to work with hospital commission to come up with some solutions. Right now we’re hearing one side of it, and that’s it.”
That led to Avanzino asking if such a workshop needed to be scheduled “right away.”
The mayor responded that it did need to happen soon, and reiterated his point to council members.
“I think it’s the council’s responsibility to talk to the commission and you all haven’t done it,” Berry said. “ I think this is a good opportunity, for whatever reasons that hadn’t been done, it’s a good opportunity for the council and the commission to get together and discuss this. Now, we’ve heard from one side but we haven’t heard what’s happening with the commission.
“It’s the same thing with our other commissioners, other commissions, that we have in town. I think when the city council wants to know what’s happening with the CAPC they get with the CAPC and talk about it. I think that’s what needs to be done here.”
The hospital commission could have already reached out by now as well, some council members responded.
“… Communication is a two-way street,” Gruning said. “I feel like we’re becoming, we’re doing these childish antics of doing this and we’re not getting anywhere. … I think the city council spoke loud and clear two weeks ago. I would have felt as well that hospital commissioners could have reached out as well. So it’s a two-way street is all I’m saying. … Hospital commissioners could have reached out as well knowing how serious this is to us and how upset, how upsetting it is … it is a two-way street.”
Other council members asked what could be discussed in such a workshop, especially since the main issues include accusations of a toxic work environment and allegations of bullying by Asbury and Edmondson — both topics that could be perceived as private personnel issues.
“I do think it’s a good idea to get us and the hospital commission together, however, … it appears, well, we all know it, the public knows it, that most of the complaints are regarding staff, past and present, from the hospital,” Avanzino said. “And those are the kinds of questions we need to ask the commission, and I don’t even think we can do that, can we?”
Tom Kieklak, an attorney from the Springdale- based Harrington Miller Eichmann & Brown law firm, who wasn’t introduced at the meeting but was sitting in the seat typically occupied by the city attorney, tried to clarify with council members what could be asked from the commission regarding personnel.
“I think you can ask them really anything,” Kieklak said. “There’s no limitation on the kind of reporting you can request of the commission. You can task the mayor with requesting it of the commission … then that reporting has to be brought to you and it kind of goes from there.
“You can ask for reporting on retention … what positions are open and what positions are filled, what’s the average number of years experience or something along those lines. You guys can ask all of that.”
Avanzino attempted to get more specific with Kieklak.
“I know we’re having specific issues, it seems, with the two current leaders that are in place, consistently all the time,” Avanzino said. “We know that something needs to happen and nothing happens. So, if we were to come in that meeting, I’m going to ask questions specifically on the behavior or lack of behavior for those two employees. So, if we were to have a commission- council meeting, can that happen?”
Council member Steve Holifield agreed, calling the situation “murky.”
“Part of the problem we have with the communication is the personnel issues,” Holifield said. “We start hearing what’s going on and then they say” ‘Well, we can’t talk about that because that gets back to personnel issues, why a person was fired or disciplined or left or whatever.’ So that’s made it really murky.
“To figure out what’s gone on here has been almost impossible for someone on the outside trying to figure out what’s going on. I have talked to at least one of the commissioners … a couple of times. But it’s hard when you have them say: ‘Well, we can’t talk about it.’ ” Kieklak urged council members to try to get some information from the commission ahead of time and cautioned that some things could and couldn’t be discussed in an open meeting under the state’s Freedom of Information Act.
“I don’t think you want to … start an investigation with an open meeting,” the attorney said. “For one thing, I’d think there’d be raucous participation, right? … When you’re talking about employment, you’re going to run into some things under the FOIA that can be discussed, right? Some things can’t. Or, some records can be shared and some can’t, and they’ll have requirements. I think [the hospital commission] has got legal representation, so they can take care of that. So, if you ask a question that they say: ‘Well, we can’t answer every part of that, but we can give you this much data,’ you can do that and then go from there, I think.”
Kieklak reminded council members that they can’t tell the commission who to hire and fire, but can urge them to make a decision when warranted.
“I think that this is the management and I think that is your purview, your responsibility, to get the information that you want to look at, to keep asking for more until you get what you need,” he said. “Then, yeah, if you guys have a meeting together to share your thoughts about things, I think the key is, we can’t tell them who to hire and who not to hire, right? Who to fire … but certainly say, jeez, it’s a lot of smoke, can you guys get this clear, please so we can have a way to see what’s really going on?”
NO SECOND ON REMOVAL While many council members continued to say they feel that action needs to be taken on commissioners, most agreed to hold off until the joint meeting.
The exception was council member Harry Meyer, who cast the lone dissenting vote on holding the workshop.
“To say that we haven’t heard the other side is frankly baloney,” Meyer said. “We’ve had commissioners here, chairs of the commission here, asked questions and they’ve waffled. They did not directly answer the questions and it wasn’t about personnel; it was about whether the hospital is open, whether the lab is open. They’re simple questions and they couldn’t answer them, didn’t want to answer them.
“Having a workshop with these folks that are hiding everything, sweeping it under the rug. I’m sorry, let’s move on to the next thing, removal. I move that we remove Sandy Martin from the commission out of lack of confidence.”
Later, Meyer added: “Regardless of whether we’re going to meet with the commission or not, I’ve lost all confidence in Sandy Martin, in the way she’s addressed council, in the ways she’s conducted her meetings, and I move to remove her from the commission.”
Martin chairs the hospital commission. Meyer’s motion failed to get a second.
HOSPITAL TAKEOVER?
During discussions about the upcoming joint workshop, council members discussed the possibility of an outside company — or another hospital — taking over ESH, using Washington Regional Medical Center and Mercy Health as examples.
Council member Rachael Moyer said while closing the hospital is a last resort, there is currently no confidence in the community in the facility and an outside company specializing in healthcare could be a viable option.
Gruning agreed. “I think looking at a professional management company coming in, whether it’s Mercy, whether it’s Washington Regional, and running our hospital, they’re the experts. We are not,” Gruning said. “And we clearly are showing that we are not successful right now. I’m OK with meeting the commissioners, but I think that we do have to have a plan moving forward. We can talk about all the issues that have happened. We know there are countless examples, but what do we do moving forward to make our town successful, to have a hospital that we can go to? That is vital. We are a tourist town. So, I think if we do meet with them, we have to meet with them immediately, and I also think that we need to throw out this proposal bringing in a managed care hospital or somebody to run this hospital.”
Avanzino called the idea “fantastic.”
“I just want to agree with what Susane and Rachael said about moving forward, having our hospital not run by a commission, but by a professional organization, Mercy, Washington Regional …,” he said. “That’s a fantastic idea.”
Meyer reminded council members that an outside company has run the hospital in the past.
“And didn’t we run one off once?” he said. “They don’t always fix it.”
Gruning, however, said it’s worth looking into further.
“I love where Rachael’s going with this, that we talk about bringing in a professional managed group that knows how to run a hospital and can make it successful so that we can either offer jobs back to employees, because they will need employees, or that we know we have the care we need if something happens to any one of us,” she said. “So, it’s not about revenge. It’s about moving forward. It’s how do we get from where we are to where we need to be.”
Berry said talking to groups about running the hospital isn’t “micromanaging,” and said he thought the commission had already been in talks with an outside group.
“I will state that I know the commission is in discussion with another hospital to come in and talk about doing the management of the hospital,” Berry said.
Martin told the Times-Echo via text message on Tuesday, March 25, that Berry’s statement was inaccurate.
“He misspoke,” Martin wrote. “We’re not talking to any hospital about managing the hospital. The staff has had very preliminary conversations with [North Arkansas Regional Medical Center] for some interim admin services but that’s it.”
Dr. John House, a family medicine physician, has proposed taking over the hospital in recent months, but the commission hasn’t discussed the offer during any regular meetings.
“Don’t forget that Dr. House was told to go away,” Meyer said. “And when I asked the chair of the commission: ‘Why not ask Dr. House to help you?’ I was told: ‘Why should we do that?’ They’re not interested in anybody else coming in.”
Berry interjected: “That’s not necessarily true. You’re making a …” Meyer, cutting Berry off, replied: “Listen, we’re discussing this. The council. You are the mayor, you can’t interrupt me. And don’t tell me I’m a liar. I’m tired of this. Now damn it, it’s our discussion, and you weren’t asked a question.”
Berry said Arkansas Municipal League rules state he can participate in discussions with council members.
In the end, Meyer said he’s not sure an outside company is what’s best for the hospital.
“The last company that almost ruined our hospital and the commission actually got rid of [them]. They dumped it,” Meyer said. “… Yeah, we can get in trouble getting a company to come in because they just love to manage your money. That’s happened to this hospital a couple of times. So, I don’t know what the ultimate answer is.
“It’s an old, old building. Some doctors have told me they wouldn’t want to practice there. My cardiologist told me last week, many years ago, that Washington Regional came and looked at it and they said they didn’t want to have any part of it. I don’t know if we’re going to find anybody, except Dr. House did offer. And I don’t know why the commission didn’t think that he was even worthy of consideration.”
‘THIS IS REALLY TOUGH’ Open dialogue about a future workshop and how to proceed led council members to voice their opinion on the situation — with some reading from prepared statements.
“So the allegations continue,” Gruning said. “Our constituents, which many are here right now, and many have come before us. We’re losing the hospital. We have financial issues. We have fraudulent issues that are being put out there. We need a hospital, but we need competency to run it, and right now we do not have that.
“ … I appreciate the commission wanting to work with us now, but why didn’t they come forward weeks ago? Why? Why didn’t they say to us: ‘Let’s get together?’ We have invited them to come and talk to us and we get, they’ve come and they presented the financials and what was going on with Medicare, but we’re not addressing the primary issues of the employees. We don’t have staff at that hospital. You don’t know if you’re going to get life-flighted somewhere else. You don’t know if you’re going to get the service that you need.
“We have our own council people saying they will go to Berryville before they’ll come to our own hospital. … I do appreciate what the hospital commission is trying to do, but I don’t understand why they have done nothing. And that’s what I feel, that they have not done much. And if they have, why haven’t they communicated to us?”
Meyer asked what happens if it’s requested that money awarded to the facility as a Rural Emergency Hospital be returned because of a lack of required services.
“… If there’s any time in this universe when there is no confidence in our hospital commission, it is now, because we don’t have a hospital,” Meyer said “It’s not an emergency room. You have to have blood there. You follow the code, and that’s what it says. So we’re in violation, and what if they ask for their money back? We’re getting money because it’s supposed to be operating that way, and it’s not happening, and it is not happening certainly for 24 hours a day. It’s haphazard and we need to remove commissioners.”
Communication and transparency aren’t happening as they should, Holifield said, using as an example that the commission doesn’t hold workshops at The Auditorium using video recording.
“If we, city council, can’t figure out what they’re doing, then definitely the public can’t figure out what they’re doing,” Holifield said. “I watch all their commission meetings. Unfortunately, the workshops are not here in public view being recorded visually. They’re just audio recorded, and they meet in a little tiny room across the street (from the hospital). I think that’s a mistake. What are they discussing in their workshops? Of course, they’re not supposed to be making any decisions in workshops; that’s just supposed to be a discussion.
“I recommended to the chair to start having their workshops down here so people can come and participate and see them, and at least watch them on YouTube. …. This is a time for this commission to be transparent as possible, and getting our citizens’ trust back in this hospital is the biggest issue that they’re not even seeming like they’re even addressing. Of course, the hospital needs to be run, needs to straightened out. But it concerns me that if decisions are being made, there’s not a lot being made at the commission meetings because I watch them.
“I watched them before this all blew up, and it was the most tame, boring meetings you could ever watch. Until that one day when they went into the executive session and came back and fired the [CEO]. That’s the first time there’s a clue watching the commission meetings that anything was going on. So, it concerns me that even watching the commission meetings or going to commission meetings, you’re not going to get an idea of what’s really going on.”
The issues go back years, Moyer pointed out.
“I think we’re all very frustrated, and there’s a huge lack of trust between us and the commission at the moment. That’s pretty obvious,” Moyer said. “As far as personnel issues go, I think there’s lot of other things that we can talk about besides personnel and what has happened and anything that’s connected to the lawsuits. For example, the $233,000 loss. How long can we sustain losses like that? What is the plan moving forward? What are the financial impacts? What is visitation like? Why do we think that we’re losing some visitation to our ER? There’s plenty of things I think that we can ask questions about to get a sense of what’s happening, which I don’t feel like we have right now. I did a little timeline of events since 2019. This hospital commission has had some real issues running the hospital for the last six years. This is not just a new thing.
“As far as openness from the commission, that does concern me as well. I remember sitting in this audience, waiting to see if I was gonna be appointed to this position, and the chair of the hospital commission presented everything was fine. We were back on track. And since then, it’s like a storm of negative things that have happened. And I hear from constituents, there’s no trust in the hospital, which I think is going to continue to impact visitation in a negative way. This isn’t sustainable. We’ve got to do something…” Meyer said the options are to resolve the issues or close the hospital.
“This is tough. This is really tough,” he said. “I know the wheels of government turn slowly, but remember the status of the hospital changed to a Rural Emergency Hospital two years ago. And the excuses that we’ve heard for why it’s, they’re still sorting that out, because, you know, some people had to be let go and they’re infighting and so forth. Not after two years. Not after two years. … This has been going on too long. Let’s get it done or close the hospital.”
The current controversies started when Shaw and Petrino were let go with no explanation, Holifield said.
“Well, this has not been handled well from day one,” he said. “When a CEO and [nursing director] gets fired, that should be communicated to the public why this is all happening. I feel like they just kind of circled the wagons and kept everything hush-hush.
“Again, for personnel issues, you know, made it harder to hear what’s really going on. So, this has been handled, well, I think it’s still not being handled well. I think the big issue is our confidence in the hospital from the community and that’s not even being addressed to anybody I can tell. And that’s going to be the biggest hurdle we have, is getting our public to trust that hospital is going to do something …”
‘ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IN MY LIFE’
During his comments to close the council meeting, Berry didn’t hold back on recent criticisms of him for what has appeared to be his support of the hospital commission.
“There’s a lot of people out there who think I’m pretty worthless as a mayor and a person because of what I’ve done for the hospital, and the hospital commission, and that’s your opinion and that’s fine,” the mayor said. “I will tell you, in my heart, the hospital is one of the most important things in my life. I was born in that hospital. I don’t know if I’ll die in it or not, but I’m sure I’m going to die in this town. I’ve lived here most of my life.
“What goes on in this town, and the people in this town, are very important for me. And what y’all are saying is very important and I’m very concerned about the hospital and what’s happening. I have to agree with what’s been said. This has gone on a long time. I’m encouraged that … we’re looking for solutions instead of debating the problems because there’s no sense in talking about the past, whether they’re true or not. What we need to do is find what the solutions are, and I think that’s where the commission and the council is heading toward.
“I’m encouraged by the things that I’ve heard. I don’t think the commission wants to run the hospital. They would more than be pleased to have a hospital professional management in there to run the hospital. There’s a lot of issues that’s been going on … you want to throw darts at things or we can always, you know, we all live in glass houses and I think we’ve got a part to blame in this. … We ultimately ended up with a good solution. I think that’s where we’re at with the council, with the hospital commission. The last thing I want to see is it be closed. There’s too many ramifications, negative ramifications for that. And we need it.”
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Two of three people who spoke during public comments voiced continued concerns over the hospital issues.
Former hospital employees Richard and Samantha Webb approached the podium and said they were yielding their three minutes of time to Heather Wilson, a member of the city advertising and promotion commission who has been very vocal in recent months regarding the hospital controversy.
Wilson spoke for 7 minutes, 20 seconds, voicing concerns about lack of oversight from the hospital commission, budget woes, human resources issues, and the recent decision to move monthly commission meetings to 2 p.m.
“The Eureka Springs Hospital website reads: ‘Taking care of people is our mission.’ Well, you could have fooled me,” Wilson said to start her comments. “… It is with deep concern that I address the current situation at our local hospital. We rely on this facility as a cornerstone of health for our community and visitors. Obviously, current circumstances raise serious questions about its overseers’ commitment to our well-being. This breach of trust is further exacerbated by the dismissal of dedicated employees and the apparent efforts to block open dialogue through inaccessible hospital commission meeting times. 2 p.m.? Even for those who can make it, they must compact months and years of toxicity and experiences into three mere minutes. By the way, it still says 6 p.m. on the hospital website.”
Wilson referenced an email she said she sent council members on Friday, March 21, regarding a “child predator” being hired at the hospital.
“My email to the council … included detailed specifics of a child predator being hired at the hospital three days after applying, no criminal background check performed, in direct opposition to two CMS and Arkansas codes, nine days after a protection order was filed against her, not the first, and mere weeks after she was placed under federal investigation for the crime she is now serving 10 years without the possibility of parole,” Wilson said. “It raises questions: How long has the commission failed at oversight? Will there ever be accountability, or will a fired administrator be assigned blame? And curiously, are candidates generally hired in such an expedient fashion absent due diligence? …” Wilson laid out a series of hospital financials she said she received, voicing concerns over numbers and how they relate to questionable activities by hospital leadership, she said.
“This is the time to make a choice,” Wilson told council members. “Either step up and do what’s right, or step aside. Tolerating poor leadership, regardless of its source, stifles good growth of places and of people.
Longevity does not equate to qualifications, merit or expertise. Just because someone has been around for a long time doesn’t mean they possess the necessary skills, knowledge or judgment to provide effective oversight.
“One lawsuit underway, unknown lawsuits pending, 750,000 tourists who deserve a safe place to visit, 2,200 residents of a town who deserve better and are waiting for someone to do the right thing, one hospital commission failing in its oversight role, acting as CEO/CFO cheerleaders rather than effective watchdogs.”
Wilson placed pebbles in a jar, saying they represented the “58 voices whose concerns have been silenced or dismissed.”
She placed one additional pebble in the jar to represent those who “are tired, who are scared and haven’t come forward yet.”
Tina Adams, a former employee of the hospital, also spoke, criticizing Berry for things such as “not protecting the employees of ESH from violence in the workplace” and for “letting the commission to get away with illegal doings.”
“… My questions are, why are you supporting the city employees that are doing wrong, and why are they allowed to continue to run off more staff,” Adams said, directing her comments to the mayor. “If you Google: What is the mayor’s job?, this is what it says. ‘The mayor fulfills an executive role by seeing that laws are enforced and that city officers and employees properly do their jobs.’
“Again, I ask, why is this not being done? Again, the hospital is still on divert. No one has blood bank training. And most days, there is no one working in the lab. This breaks the REH requirements….”
Former staff will continue to voice their concerns, Adams told council members.
“We will continue to fight until the community feels safe, and the employees are treated with respect and have no fear of violence, retaliation, or bullying from the admin team,” she said.
OTHER COUNCIL ACTION
In a vote during the hospital-dominated meeting, the council unanimously approved a resolution authorizing a temporary entertainment district downtown from Thursday, May 29 through Sunday, Sunday, June 1, for the Eureka Springs Blues Party.
The district will be in effect from 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. daily and will include an area from Spring Street at Pendergrass Corner downstairs to Main Street, then east from Center to Spring Street and Spring Street to The Auditorium and back to Pendergrass Corner.
Council member Terry McClung was absent from Monday’s meeting.
— Mayor Butch Berry
